0:00:02.0 John Sheehan: My neighbor Bill fishes for stripers off the New Jersey coast every summer. His favorite technique is using live eels as bait. Apparently you've got to hook them under the jawline and out through the eye socket. That way they don't ball up on you. The trips are a big deal to him and his son, his brother, his whole family, and to a lot of us who love getting out on the water.

0:00:22.5 Russell Dunn: You see how it allows people to spend time with friends, family out on the water. Recreational fishing is really a key part of the social and economic fabric of our coastal communities.

0:00:35.2 JS: This is Dive In with NOAA Fisheries. I'm John Sheehan. And today we're talking about recreational fishing and why rec fishing is a priority for the agency and deserves attention and focus at the national level.

0:00:49.7 RD: It's an activity which supports hundreds of thousands of jobs across the country while contributing literally billions of dollars with a B to the national economy.

0:01:01.1 JS: This is my first guest, Russell Dunn, the National Policy Advisor for Recreational Fisheries. Prioritizing and creating policy around rec fishing is something that's required of the agency by law.

0:01:08.9 RD: Included in the purposes of the Magnuson Act is a requirement to promote sustainable commercial and recreational fisheries for the benefit of the nation.

0:01:17.0 JS: The first national saltwater recreational fishing policy was created about seven years ago after a national summit.

0:01:23.6 RD: A real substantial portion of those participants told us NOAA put together this policy to help guide the agency as you're looking at and considering recreational fisheries.

0:01:35.1 JS: And now that policy is being updated to reflect the changing conditions and needs of the rec fishing community. Russell Dunn, welcome to Dive In with NOAA Fisheries. Thanks so much for being here.

0:01:45.8 RD: Thanks, John. I appreciate the opportunity.

0:01:47.8 JS: And Russell, can we go back for a second to talk about that billions of dollars to the national economy?

0:01:54.6 RD: Yeah, you know, recreational fishing, it's really an economic powerhouse underlying the blue economy, right? The latest statistics that we have indicate that recreational fishing just in saltwater supports around 550,000 jobs across the country and contributes about $36 billion, again billion, to the gross domestic product of the US And when you step back and try and fit that within the outdoor recreation industry as a whole, it's a significant contributor. Outdoor recreation as a whole contributes about 1.8% to US GDP each year. And within that 1.8%, recreational boating and fishing represents the largest traditionally tracked activity in that survey.

0:02:43.8 JS: And so what is the National Saltwater Rec Fishing Policy? Why is it necessary?

0:02:49.3 RD: Well, the policy is really, it's a touchstone for the agency during decision making that sort of outlines our approach to recreational fisheries, right? It essentially lays out the agency's commitment to accessible and diverse and sustainable recreational fisheries. It provides a common framework for all of NOAA fisheries, recreational fisheries work across the country. And it essentially helps ensure that we're all rowing in the same direction towards the same overall set of goals. But then from the public perspective, it does a few other things. First, it lets the public know what our goals are. And this helps keep us accountable. The public can look at it, know what our focus is, and then turn around and ask us, hey, how are you doing on achieving those goals?

0:03:38.6 JS: And so what were the big policy goals of the report?

0:03:42.7 RD: Well, the policy goals are pretty simple and straightforward, and there are just three of them. It is to support and maintain the resources on which recreational fisheries depend. And I think that's a pretty intuitive goal for most people. There's no fish or no habitat, then there's no fishery.

0:04:00.8 RD: Second is to promote recreational fishing for the benefit of the nation. And finally, third is to enable long-term participation through science-based conservation and management. We want to make sure that we can all fish, that our kids can fish, that their kids can fish. And we believe the best way to achieve that goal is to make decisions based on the best available science.

0:04:26.0 JS: Okay, and what are the guiding principles, and how are those different than goals?

0:04:33.2 RD: There are six guiding principles, and they are really sort of guideposts that reference approaches that we think are appropriate to pursue in trying to achieve our goals. Supporting ecosystem conservation and management, clearly that's very closely linked to one of our goals. But then promoting public access to quality recreational fishing opportunities. Coordinating with our state and federal management partners. We know that fish don't understand political boundaries, right? So we have to coordinate with our state partners and our other federal partners to make sure that recreational fisheries are addressed in a coherent and productive manner. Advancing innovative solutions to challenges facing our fisheries. This is an area where there are many challenges up there, there are many solutions.

0:05:18.0 RD: Some are management-type solutions, some are scientific solutions, some challenges can be addressed simply through a better effort to communicate and engage and inform the public. Provide scientifically sound and trusted information. Communicate and engage with the fishing public. That's one that as an agency, as a federal agency, we know we struggle with. We strive to do better, and this podcast I think is part of that effort. But they're basically, tenants for any natural resource management agency that stand the test of time when you look back at how can we best achieve the policy goals.

0:05:56.0 JS: And so we're talking today because the policy is getting updated. Why?

0:06:03.2 RD: So in the spring of 2022, we co-hosted another two-day meeting with leaders of the rec, saltwater fishing community from all around the country, right? We had guides, private recreational fishermen, charter and head boat owners and operators, tackle manufacturers, and then our state and federal management partners at the table, literally from Maine to Guam. We brought them in to listen and to discuss their priorities and concerns. And very quickly in those conversations, we recognized that there were some gaps in the policy that hadn't been addressed.

0:06:40.6 RD: Obvious gaps such as climate change, such as some of the emerging uses out there, offshore wind energy, aquaculture, those potential conflicts with sort of traditional ocean uses. So we realized that in order to maintain relevance for the policy, that it needed to be updated.

0:07:01.6 JS: And so what are some of the biggest changes and conditions that you've been responding to?

0:07:10.5 RD: Well, I think you can break that down into two categories. On the water, anglers are seeing climate-driven changes, which a few years ago, they either hadn't noticed or weren't occurring. So anglers are seeing, for example, water quality issues in the Gulf of Mexico, such as red tide that are more frequent and lasting longer. Along the East and West Coast, we're seeing fish move up the coast north into cooler water. They're moving further offshore, they're going deeper, or they're changing their migration patterns as water temperatures change. On the land, I think what we're seeing is a more engaged fishing public demanding more and better science and more responsive management. At the same time, what we're seeing on the water is more anglers fishing in more places with more and better technology, which is making them more efficient than ever.

0:08:06.7 RD: So this combination is making it more and more challenging to manage these fisheries than ever because the quotas, the allocations can in some cases be caught at a much more rapid pace than they had in the past.

0:08:22.1 JS: Is it fair to say that the rec fishing industry has been growing in popularity?

0:08:26.6 RD: Yeah, I think it is. It is definitely fair to say that it's growing in popularity, not only on the water, but also with recreational fishing interests being more engaged in the science and management process. You know, particularly as a result of COVID, we saw an enormous spike in recreational fishing activity sort of within any given state. And we've also seen a concerted effort both by the recreational community itself and also by our federal agencies to try and expand the universal participants. We're seeing more interest among women and minorities joining and participating in recreational fisheries over the last few years.

0:09:09.8 JS: And how important would you say is public input to this process?

0:09:17.9 RD: It is really critical. To get it right, public input is critical. And that's why as of yesterday, we had 17 public discussions on how best to update the policy and we have a few more to go. You know, the original policy was very heavily based on public input. And as a result, what we're hearing is that the policy has really withstood the test of time. Yes, there are some tweaks to make, but overall, it's a very solid document. And we want to make sure that this next iteration does equally well over time in addressing the priorities of the recreational fishing public.

0:09:52.9 JS: So, Russell, what kinds of things are you hearing from the public? What are some comments that are coming up?

0:09:57.0 RD: We've heard a broad range of inputs from the public. We're hearing that anglers or the fishing public wants more agency, transparency and accountability in the process. We're hearing very strongly from anglers about the need to address climate change to the extent that we can. We're hearing about interest in environmental justice and equity in not only in the fishery themselves, but also in the fisheries management and science process and representation in those management bodies that make decisions. We have heard about interest in improving data reporting, like fish catches and effort, and a real strong interest, particularly from people in the, for hire community, so charter boats, head boats, et cetera, about interest in cooperative data collection and real interest in trying to jointly develop data that they have trust in, that there's some buy in, and that provide us the data and the scientists the data that are needed to enhance recreational fisheries management.

0:11:07.9 JS: That's really interesting that members of the rec fishing community themselves want to actually contribute to the data being collected.

0:11:12.5 RD: Yeah, I think they have a real vested interest, right? Because the science and decisions that are made through the process affect their, either their livelihood if they're charter boat owners or operators or tackle shop owners, or their chosen recreational activity and so they want to have trust in the data on which those decisions are being made, and they want to be a part of the decisions that are being made themselves.

0:11:40.4 JS: That's great and their voices are being heard.

0:11:43.7 RD: Absolutely. Yeah, the United States really has probably the most open and participatory fisheries management system in the world by far.

0:11:55.4 JS: Russell Dunn, thanks so much for talking with me.

0:11:57.8 RD: All right. Thanks, John. I appreciate it.

0:12:00.9 JS: Russell Dunn is the National Policy Advisor for recreational fisheries. As Russell mentioned, public input into the policy update process is vital. You can learn more at our website, fisheries.noaa.gov, or you can literally email them.

0:12:16.6 RD: Email your thoughts to recreational.fisheries@noaa.gov.

0:12:20.4 JS: Sometimes direct is best. I want to touch on something that Russell said, the first goal in fact of the rec fishing policy.

0:12:29.0 RD: To support and maintain the resources on which recreational fisheries depend. That's a pretty intuitive goal, right? There's no fish or no habitat, then there's no fishery.

0:12:39.1 JS: That's the underlying principle behind the initiative we'll hear about next, the National Fish Habitat Partnership.

0:12:44.6 Alex Atikinson: We aim to protect, restore, and enhance aquatic ecosystems across the US And it's comprised of a network of 20 individual fish habitat partnerships and our collaboration between federal and state and conservation groups.

0:12:58.4 JS: This is my next guest, Alex Atkinson, a policy analyst with NOAA Fisheries and the board staff representative for the National Fish Habitat Partnership.

0:13:07.2 AA: You'll probably hear me refer to the partnership as NFHP. That's the acronym that we use to describe the program.

0:13:13.4 JS: These projects provide funding to non-commercial fishing communities to help restore and protect the very habitats that they live near and interact with.

0:13:21.0 AA: NOAA is just one of the federal partners within NFHP, the partnership. And what we heard directly from the recreational community was that they wanted to get engaged in more habitat work. And so we worked together to develop this funding opportunity that really does focus not only on habitat improvements, but also engaging with recreational communities. So since 2018, we have funded 16 projects within the fish habitat partnerships over the years.

0:13:52.4 JS: So, Alex, what does this look like on the ground? What are some of the projects we're talking about?

0:13:57.0 AA: They occur all over the US From Alaska, Hawaii, all the way to Maine. And they are all formed around important aquatic habitats, distinct geographic boundaries or keystone species. And so they work on everything from restoring and reconnecting fish habitats in rivers and streams to, modifying existing fish habitats by adding woody debris. They do data assessments to assess the population status of a particular fish species. They might work with local landowners to improve agricultural practices that may impact fish habitats. And then they do community outreach and education to work within their local communities to share the importance of fish habitats and why we should care about restoring them.

0:14:45.6 JS: Yeah. And these are very much, as you say, on the ground projects. This is local community members interacting with their environment towards restoring these habitats.

0:14:55.3 AA: Yeah, exactly. That's the foundation of these FHPs is that they are the local organization that connects with local communities and groups on the ground and those who are actually close to these particular habitats that are being restored or conserved in a way. And so they're really the foundation of the partnership as a whole.

0:15:16.6 JS: And so what are some of the criteria for individual projects?

0:15:20.9 AA: At a high level, those criteria are things like they have to address, the project must address regional and national priorities. They must be a data driven project that is supported by the existing science. They must identify monitoring and evaluation for their project to know whether or not it's successful, including things like leveraging other funding and really one of the key requirements is that the project address causes behind the actual decline of the fish habitat. So making sure that we're not putting a Band-Aid on a bigger problem, that we're really working to address the causes of the declines of fish habitat. And they also include an outreach and education components in the project proposal.

0:16:01.4 JS: Yeah. So that the project has to actually accomplish something and be measurable.

0:16:06.0 AA: Exactly. Yeah. And those metrics are really difficult when you're dealing with fish. It can be very complex to figure out how to measure whether or not you've made a difference. But there are good ways to go about doing that. And as an example, things like reconnected miles of streams. And so since the founding of the program, NFHP has reconnected 4711 miles of rivers and streams. And we've restored or rehabilitated over 1100 miles of river and streams. So that's one way that we can measure the progress that we are making on the ground with these projects.

0:16:39.9 JS: Yeah. So let's take a look at some other actual case studies. Can you give us an example of another project that's been a success?

0:16:46.9 AA: Yeah, sure. So most recently in 2022, our collaboration with the Recreational Fishing Initiative helped to fund three projects that occur in these fish habitat partnerships. And so we have funded a project in Hawaii that is looking at coral reef restorations using transplants and artificial reef structures in West O'ahu. We've also funded in 2022 a project in Alaska that seeks to add protections to important freshwater habitats and continue to grow the community of conservation minded recreational anglers in Alaska. And finally, we funded a South Carolina project that is using this technique where they use old crab traps. They modify them slightly to create oyster habitat for oysters to settle on. And so that project is restoring oyster reefs while engaging underrepresented student groups in South Carolina.

0:17:46.8 JS: And something I like about the project in general is that each of the projects, they're stated up front what's going to happen and then they're updated frequently on the Web. You can check in on the projects and see how they're coming.

0:18:02.0 AA: Yeah, we really like to provide the latest status update with pictures and other information. It's really powerful a lot of the time to get to see a before and after of an actual restoration site. For example, a project we funded in South Carolina in 2019 that was working with the Department of Natural Resources worked with anglers to restore and monitor oyster reefs and plant adjacent salt marsh. So the project since then, they've constructed three new oyster reefs and planted salt marsh species at two different sites. And they've hosted events where they've had more than 920 volunteers who work to sort and bag oyster shells and plant marsh seeds. In 2019, we also funded a project with the Kenai Peninsula Fish Habitat Partnership in Alaska.

0:18:51.9 AA: And that partnership was working with the Kenai Watershed Forum to develop a plan to expand outreach and volunteer restoration efforts of its water stewardship program called Stream Watch. And so this project engaged local angling groups to assist land management agencies with peer-to-peer education and hands on river restoration. And these projects will restore recreational fishing resources and the work will increase the program's capacity to partner with local fishing groups and leverage efforts to improve ecological concerns for fish and their habitats.

0:19:27.8 JS: And the work itself is being done by the local anglers. So you've got the participants directly benefiting and creating affinity, not just for the project, but for the environment. It sounds like a really nice way of engaging the community.

0:19:42.4 AA: Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the key drivers of this informal funding opportunity that NOAA has offered for these fish habitat partnerships is the project not only must benefit important fish habitats, but it also must engage the recreational fishing communities. And so we've really seen some great creative proposals over the years and there is certainly no shortage of demand for this type of work. And we've been really thrilled to offer this opportunity and see what people come up with.

0:20:09.9 JS: So, Alex, let's talk about another example. How about one from the Gulf?

0:20:13.9 AA: Yeah, sure. So back in 2021, we funded a project in Louisiana partnering with anglers bettering Louisiana's estuaries, Louisiana Sea Grant and the Southeast Aquatic Resources Partnership. And that project is working with local charter boat captains who will provide an experiential learning program about Louisiana habitat restoration and coastal planning. The program will include classroom sessions, field days and time on the water for students in that area. And so during these field days, the captains will be potting, planting and monitoring black mangroves to improve habitats for juvenile fish, shrimp and crabs. The thing that we loved about this project is that it is recruiting local high school students to participate in all of these field days.

0:21:01.4 JS: So, Alex, let's talk about some of the current opportunities. And can we start with what kinds of projects get priority? What are some factors that make it more likely for a proposal to be accepted?

0:21:13.9 AA: Yeah. So when we're specifically talking about this informal NOAA funding opportunity, at the very minimum, we ask that these project proposals not only better fish habitats and improve fish habitats, but also engage recreational fishing communities. But projects that really tick all of the boxes would be a project that does both of those things, but also includes underrepresented groups in their project. And so that Louisiana project, like I mentioned, is a great example of one that goes above those kind of bare minimum requirements and also is reaching underrepresented groups who we don't often see linked in with this type of work.

0:21:50.3 JS: And very explicitly, that includes tribes, right?

0:21:54.2 AA: Yes, tribes would certainly be included in that list of underrepresented communities. And that is one of the groups that NFHP is working on engaging with more.

0:22:04.1 JS: So these projects are key in helping ecosystems. Can you make the connection of how that helps communities?

0:22:13.6 AA: These projects not only are improving habitats for the fish who live in those habitats, but by repairing and restoring some of these ecosystems, they serve a broader function that often benefits us as people. And so thinking about things like food source, you know, many people look to the water for their food source, whether it be oysters or fish. They also provide water filtration. So talking about restoring oyster reefs, those reefs have the ability to filter a lot of bad stuff out of the water column. In addition to water and food, these projects improve these areas that humans like to access and boat and fish. So those are kind of a more direct connection to these projects that are happening. Not only are the fish benefiting, but communities around them are also benefiting. And so I think that's an important connection to make.

0:23:05.6 JS: Yeah. Healthy ecosystems mean healthy people.

0:23:08.0 AA: Exactly.

0:23:10.9 JS: And so how do people learn more or how could people apply?

0:23:14.7 AA: People can learn more about NFHP, the National Fish Habitat Partnership, by going to fishhabitat.org. And there you can, if you click on the partnerships tab, you'll be able to see a map of all of the 20 fish habitat partnerships that pretty much cover every inch of the US And in terms of the specific funding opportunities, getting in contact with each FHP is coordinated by a person. So getting in contact with that coordinator whose information is all found on our website would be a great starting point if you're interested in applying for this funding opportunity.

0:23:48.0 JS: Alex Atkinson, thanks so much for talking with me.

0:23:51.9 AA: Yeah, sure. No problem. Thanks for the opportunity, John.

0:23:55.9 JS: Alex Atkinson is a policy analyst with NOAA Fisheries and the board staff representative for the National Fish Habitat Partnership. As Alex mentioned, you can learn more and see where the closest partnership organizations are to you at fishhabitat.org. And as always, you can learn about all of this stuff at fisheries.noaa.gov. I'm John Sheehan, and this has been Dive In with NOAA Fisheries.