0:00:01.5 John Sheehan: To think about US seafood in strictly economic terms, it can seem pretty straightforward; hundreds of billions of dollars in sales and contributing to millions of jobs, but that doesn't really get at the complexity of an industry that's constantly impacted by global forces, perhaps the biggest of which is climate change...

0:00:17.7 Speaker 2: Humanity is on thin ice and that ice is melting fast.

0:00:23.2 JS: But also things like international trade relations...

0:00:24.9 Speaker 3: It shows America is importing more seafood than ever before.

0:00:29.1 JS: And growing competition for ocean use.

0:00:30.0 S3: Got a proposed offshore wind farm project, the company...

0:00:32.9 JS: Forces that, by the way, also shape the priorities of the entire National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. This is Dive In with NOAA Fisheries. I'm John Sheehan. And today we'll talk about how not just NOAA Fisheries supports the seafood sector, but indeed how it's the job of all of NOAA whose mission is science, service and stewardship. To discuss how the US seafood industry intersects with many of NOAA's priorities, I was fortunate to sit down with NOAA Administrator, Dr. Rick Spinrad.

0:01:01.1 Dr. Rick Spinrad: Please recognize in me you've got a very strong voice and a very strong advocacy for ensuring that we have sustainable, viable, world-leading fisheries for generations to come.

0:01:14.2 JS: And with Janet Coit, Assistant Administrator of NOAA Fisheries.

0:01:16.0 Janet Coit: I am very proud to represent and lead our nation's robust and dynamic fisheries management agency.

0:01:24.6 JS: I spoke with both of them at the Seafood Expo North America, or SENA, which bills itself as the largest seafood exposition on the continent. It's held annually in Boston and hosts many disparate members of the seafood community; buyers, sellers, growers, processors, packagers, fishermen of all stripes, government representatives, international trade conglomerates. It is hard to overstate the range of representatives. And for that reason, NOAA leadership takes it quite seriously. Dr. Rick Spinrad, welcome to Dive In with NOAA Fisheries.

0:01:54.4 DS: Thank you, glad to be here.

0:01:55.8 JS: So, Dr. Spinrad, this is your second time at the Seafood Expo in North America. Why was it important for you to come back?

0:02:03.6 DS: So, I think first of all, it's important for me to be here as NOAA administrator anyway. And Janet Coit's here, obviously, the Head of the Fisheries Service. And I think it's always good for the NOAA administrator to be here to demonstrate not just the top level support, but also the, if you will, the cross-decking. So I look at an expo like this in the same way that I look at, say, the American Meteorological Society. What are the parts of NOAA that may not be front and center in the agenda, so to speak, but which really have equity? So we've talked about things like remote sensing. We've talked about things like ocean prediction, things that the fisheries service contributes to and depends upon, but which are not necessarily central to the portfolio of the National Marine Fisheries Service.

0:02:49.4 JS: Yeah, but which have huge implications for the seafood sector writ large.

0:02:51.5 DS: Absolutely. And I could make the same argument with respect to a broader set of equities within the Department of Commerce. We had some discussions this morning that impinge on the International Trade Administration, that impinge on the Bureau of Industry and Security. So there are not just NOAA equities, if you will, but departmental responsibilities that are invoked in a lot of the discussions here.

0:03:16.4 JS: Last year, it seemed like a big throughline at the conference and maybe the world was the pandemic and recovery from it. I'm wondering if you're hearing any of those similar anxieties this year, or if that's somewhat in the rearview mirror.

0:03:32.7 DS: It's not in the rearview mirror in the sense of the long-term impact that the pandemic had. I think it is in the rearview mirror in terms of whether people are gonna show up here. But what we're seeing is now, how do we deal with the consequences? I had a fascinating discussion last night with one of the folks who's responsible for the restaurant business in seafood and he said to me, they've seen a flip-flop in terms of pre-COVID, roughly, 70% of the seafood that was eaten in this country was eaten in restaurants, and now that number is more like 30%. So what does that mean if you're shipping out fresh seafood to a different kind of user, if you will? And what does it mean in terms of changes in demands? To me, that's the kind of post-COVID impact on an expo like this that we at NOAA really need to take a board and understand more fully.

0:04:20.0 JS: What are some other common themes or issues that you're hearing about from stakeholders and partners?

0:04:25.0 DS: There's a lot of concerns with respect to international trade. People see the opportunities, but they're also looking at how we are doing in terms of engaging. And it's not just, if you will, the straightforward seafood importation regulations and processes, but it's also more focused on illegal, unreported, unregulated fishing, IUU fishing, what we're doing about it. We've been doing a lot. So we've been having a lot of those kinds of discussions as well. I think this concept of the role that we play at NOAA in a regulatory environment in conjunction with the need to build out renewable energy, specifically offshore wind, is getting a lot more attention because it's a much more aggressive posture that we're taking in this administration and people are seeing things going into the ocean. Whereas before, it was more of a, if you will, theoretical discussion perhaps, now it's real substantive and has impact on people.

0:05:19.3 JS: Yeah. And it's been fascinating how this to me has been somewhat of a microcosm for larger conversations around the country. I mean, as you spoke to international trade, I mean, there are... There's a tension that's viewable here too that speaks to larger trade concerns.

0:05:36.3 DS: Yeah, I think that's a very insightful comment. And I think if you pull back and consider all of these issues in the context of security, its various flavors, if you will, food security, water security, national security, economic security, we play a role, fisheries plays a role in all of those. And so consequently, what may have been viewed as a little bit more niche market consideration, we're starting to see partnerships and engagement. Two weeks ago, I was in a number of meetings with the Secretary of the Navy on basically fisheries-related, international trade-related, IUU fishing-related discussions. That's different. That's elevating what we do at NOAA to a slightly different level than we may have been engaged in in the past.

0:06:23.4 JS: Relatedly, and you touched on this earlier, NOAA's priorities impact the seafood sector in a number of ways: Increasing climate change resiliency, expanding coastal and ocean research, data collection, increasing access to data. Can you connect the dots for maybe a seafood sector member how NOAA's priorities are affecting their day-to-day?

0:06:47.0 DS: I think the way NOAA's priorities will affect the day-to-day activities in the fisheries world is manifold in the sense that our ability to collect data and make it available for people to make decisions upon is vastly improved and vastly more accurate than it was in the past. And that's not just, "Should I go fishing today? And if so, for what and where?" but also, "Am I geared up, literally geared up for what the fisheries economy is gonna look like off Alaska 20 years from now?" So we've been talking with some of the major processors about what kind of capital expenditures are they facing and should they be considering. The technological aspect is also changing dramatically.

0:07:35.2 DS: So we're now looking at some incredible capabilities for complementing what we might call the more traditional approaches to stock assessments using autonomous vehicles, using all sorts of new sophisticated capabilities. And I've gotta believe that that's gonna give us even more accurate information so we can make even more accurate decisions and be more tolerant in taking an approach that minimizes the risk with respect to the ecosystem, with respect to the economy. The more we know, the better we can observe the environment, the more we can change that risk threshold, if you will.

0:08:09.9 JS: One of the first times that I heard you speak was, I believe, at one of your introductory speeches to NOAA. And you spoke about the new blue economy, which I hadn't heard before. I'd heard of the blue economy, which roughly means using ocean resources and furtherance of economic systems. Can you explain what you mean by the New Blue Economy? And what is the shift?

0:08:35.9 DS: Sure, happy to do so. And in fact, I'll use a fisheries example. The blue economy, as we tend to describe it, as economists tend to characterize it and count it, so to speak, includes what most people would recognize as components of marine trade, so to speak. So it's fisheries, it's oil and gas, it's commercial shipping, all of which can be done actually without the benefit of what I call environmental intelligence. You can go out and fish. You can ship and trade. You can go search for oil. You need some information, obviously, about the system. The argument in the New Blue economy is that as we extract data, translate it to information, and therefore convert it to knowledge, a decision aid, you can monetize that. There's benefit to taking that.

0:09:21.1 DS: So for example, there's a fellow in Florida who recognized that if he had the capability of forecasting conditions in Florida specific to the market that is the tournament sport fishing industry, that he can add intelligence to the decision-making on the part of those who are going out and participating in the tournaments. And he actually monetizes that. He makes money off that, off the proprietary information. So when I talk about the New Blue Economy, it's an economy around that force multiplier, if you will, of understanding. So whether you're a commercial shipper who wants to optimize your route, say, through the Arctic, for example, you're gonna want the best environmental intelligence.

0:10:05.7 DS: Years ago we didn't have that. We didn't have the observations. Our models were not accurate. Now we have the observations, predictive capabilities. So there's a way of monetizing that knowledge to support decisions in health, in commerce, transportation, all sorts of sectors, energy, many others.

0:10:25.8 JS: And I love that. It's such a pure example of government working for its citizens. It's saying, "Here's data, here's information government can provide you. Now take that and run with it."

0:10:38.0 DS: It's a resource. Data are a resource in much the same way that minerals or living marine resources are resources. And they can be monetized. I think probably the closest thing we've seen to demonstrating the power was the emergence of the commercial weather enterprise. And we've learned a lot from that. So part of this buildout of the New Blue Economy means understanding what are the, I call it the swim lanes of responsibility for the public sector, the private sector, so that we can foster this kind of economic development. We're in the Department of Commerce, for crying out loud. We should be doing exactly that, building up new economic sectors.

0:11:14.6 JS: Finally, Dr. Spinrad, you attend events like this, industry events or with stakeholders or partners around the world, globally, in all different shapes and sizes. I'm wondering, how does this one compare? It strikes me as interesting because you can walk the floor and meet oyster farmers who are gonna go back and farm oysters after this. And then as we say, there are all manner of regulators and federal policymakers. It strikes me as an interesting mix.

0:11:42.0 DS: So I'll answer that one, John, by saying that the exciting part of this conference, maybe more so than most of the others that I attend, is its diversity of participation. So I'm seeing a, obviously, very heavy industry component, pretty strong NGO component here as well, obviously, government, I've met with representatives of at least half a dozen other nations, governments. And so to me, that's special. All the meetings I go to have some degree of diversity. I haven't been able to walk out of a single session without at least a half a dozen people cornering me to talk about seafood inspection or illegal, unreported, unregulated fisheries or aquaculture, which is exciting. These are passionate, engaged people, and I really appreciate that.

0:12:30.1 JS: Yeah. Well, I appreciate you taking the time. Dr. Spinrad, thanks so much.

0:12:33.5 DS: It's been my pleasure, John. Thank you.

0:12:35.8 JS: Dr. Rick Spinrad is the NOAA Administrator and Undersecretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere. Joining Dr. Spinrad for panels and discussions with stakeholders was Janet Coit, NOAA Fisheries Assistant Administrator, whose role and responsibility for US fisheries more directly overlaps with the seafood sector. Janet has joined me several times in conversation and was no less generous this time. Janet Coit, welcome back to Dive In with NOAA Fisheries.

0:13:02.9 JC: Thank you. I'm glad to be back.

0:13:03.3 JS: So Janet, we're once again at the biggest seafood event, industry event in North America. Why is it particularly important for the agency to be here, to have a presence here? And why is it important for you to be here?

0:13:17.3 JC: It's very important for NOAA to be here and NOAA Fisheries specifically, because we are a public service agency. Many of the stakeholders and the people that we serve are here and we can interact with them and talk to them about their concerns. We can let them know what we do and about our expertise and we can have a dialogue that leads to learning and I think better outcomes. For me, it's really important to be places where I am proximate to people and I can relate to and take the measure of people directly and have them have that opportunity to do that with me. And not only is this a giant coming together of all different people who represent the seafood industry, because they're here in Boston, it means that you have government leaders, environmental groups, you have other facets of the US government.

0:14:12.6 JC: So it becomes a conference or an expo where all sorts of business can get done. So whether that's casually and informally talking to a trade rep from Vietnam, whether it's a more formal meeting as we had yesterday with government officials from Norway, you have the opportunity to make connections that will help us promote trade, better global relations, and it's something you can't otherwise find all in one place. It's kind of like a cosmic cocktail party or something that you just don't know what conversations you're going to have that are going to open a door or provide an entree into something that is helpful or innovative or can improve the way that we do our business for the American public and to benefit and support the seafood sector.

0:15:03.4 JS: And so what kinds of things are you hearing that are top of mind? What are what are some major issues that people wanna discuss?

0:15:10.6 JC: Major issues that have come up have revolved around climate change. There's been a lot of talk about, whether it's a shellfish grower who's been statically in the same place in Chesapeake Bay for generations, or whether it's a large trawling operation, there has been an interest in how does our science keep up with management and a lot of talk about what people are seeing in the water in terms of changes and whether that's water quality or whether that's species shifting or their distribution changing and an eagerness to make sure that we're on top of that and responsive to those changes.

0:15:47.3 JC: So that's been probably the biggest theme that I've heard. Another theme has been around new technologies. I stopped and met a company that has just helped with basic, how you track your product, a very simple technology that I then heard from other people that it's made their lives easier. So from really basic things to bigger, exciting breakthroughs, there is an interest and a lot of discussion about how technology can change the way we operate.

0:16:18.6 JS: So I think a lot of people here are probably very familiar with the agency, possibly as a regulatory body, but certainly as a federal agency. But I'm wondering if they know so much about the agency's priorities, or about your priorities for furthering the seafood sector. Have you gotten that sense?

0:16:36.4 JC: I think some people have been surprised that what we're here talking about primarily is the national seafood strategy. So anybody who's involved in US fisheries management knows about NOAA Fisheries role in terms of science and stock assessment and how we work within the laws that we're responsible for to regulate, but perhaps not as many people think of us as an entity that is also here to support the seafood industry. And that's what we've been trying to promote in terms of, how are the various roles that we play and that we're responsible for are related to supporting the resilience and the growth of this entire industry? And again, not how people always think about NOAA Fisheries, but if you step back, the thing that we're broadcasting is that we have sustainable fisheries. And we only have sustainable fisheries because we have strong laws, strong science and oversight into how they're managed. So even that core function that we perform is part of ensuring that we have a quality seafood product and that consumers can be confident that American seafood is well-managed and they know where the food is coming from.

0:17:48.0 JS: Yeah. You mentioned the forthcoming seafood strategy. Are there any other takeaways that you feel like you're working hard to get out, to sort of make known?

0:17:57.1 JC: The basics of what we do are really encompassed in that strategy. However, there's parts of it that might be new to people. For instance, one of the pillars is for us to try to promote the growth of aquaculture in the US and that's something we feel is beneficial for the public at large. If we have more grown seafood that's done in an environmentally sustainable way, that provides another set of jobs and another opportunity for healthy protein for families. So it's an industry that has largely been in state waters to date. And at NOAA Fisheries, we'd like to see more seafood grown, more aquaculture projects and that includes seaweed in federal waters. And we have seen... I saw some interesting seaweed products on the floor. That is an area of aquaculture that there's a lot of interest in, as well as what I think people are more familiar with, which is the shellfish aquaculture in state waters.

0:18:53.9 JC: And then there's a growing interest in finfish aquaculture. So that's something at the moment we're part of research and development and kind of paving the way for appropriately permanent and environmentally safe aquaculture growth. But that's one element of the strategy that we'd like to talk more about.

0:19:12.6 JS: Definitely. And the more I hear about it, the more I learn about it, the more exciting I think it is. It's got such huge potential.

0:19:17.7 JC: It does. A majority of what we import here into the US is grown seafood, not wild harvest seafood. And it would be excellent to see our own American companies get more involved in aquaculture. And we feel proud of the way that we can ensure that companies that do business in US waters are protecting the environment and aquaculture is, I think, a lot of upside.

0:19:40.2 JS: I'm not sure that a lot of people recognize also that while seafood is definitely a priority for NOAA Fisheries, it's a priority for NOAA, the greater agency as well.

0:19:51.5 JC: Yes. And it's fantastic to have the head of NOAA, Dr. Rick Spinrad, here at SENA for the second year in a row. So he is demonstrating with his feet that seafood is a priority for the whole NOAA, and in fact for the whole Department of Commerce, but also, the things that NOAA is responsible for, weather predictions, the National Weather Service, mapping and charting the ocean, the National Ocean Service, the big ships that do the stock assessments and the research that carry the platforms for our research. That's our marine and aviation operations. The seafood sector depends on all of NOAA. And so we at Fisheries are intimately involved in many of the regulatory issues and the science that underpins fisheries.

0:20:37.5 JC: But that's true across all of NOAA. In fact, even our satellites are used increasingly as tools for law enforcement. So I think having the administrator here is symbolic of the fact that fisheries and living marine resources in our ocean and how we manage them draws upon all different types of data and science and NOAA expertise. And I'm really thrilled that Dr. Spinrad is here leading the NOAA delegation at SENA.

0:21:07.1 JS: Absolutely. Janet Coit, thanks so much.

0:21:10.7 JC: Thank you, John.

0:21:11.9 JS: Janet Coit is the Assistant Administrator for NOAA Fisheries. She and Dr. Spinrad spoke with me at the 2023 Seafood Expo North America in Boston, just before a classic nor'easter blew through New England, I might add, snarling travel plans for everyone. It was pretty harrowing. There's much more to learn about NOAA and NOAA Fisheries' role in the greater seafood industry, in the nation's actions to confront climate change, or in habitat conservation and ocean stewardship. You can find it all online at NOAA.gov or fisheries.noaa.gov, where you can also find videos and education resources. Or sign up for newsletters. Maybe decide to subscribe or follow a podcast or two. Special thanks to Diversified Communications for some of the audio we use from SENA. I'm John Sheehan, and this has been Dive in with NOAA Fisheries.